CCC • View topic - Leisure batteries

Hi all

Im hoping to fit a leisure battery to our rather wonderful VDub camper (pictures to follow shortly). Could any of you experienced types give me some idea what kind of capacity this provides. Im starting from a position of no knowledge whatsoever. To give you some idea of how it would be used - I use a plug in CPAP machine each night which helps with sleep apnoea. Mrs Ana would use it for hair drying, we'd occasionally run a DVD player off it, and perhaps a plug in coffee maker. We also have a plug in cool box which we would only run half of the time. I intend getting one of those trickle charger things if that helps.

So how many days are these things good for, are there any makes which you would recommend, or is there owt else I need to know? All advice gratefully recieved.

I'm in the same boat Ana - in that I know jack about vehicle electrics.

However, I sort of understand the requirements as I'm obviously looking into stuff for project rosey. You basically have a couple of options:

a. You're not going to be using much leccy - fit an inverter and plug all elecrical bit's into it as and when required, you will need the engine running to power up things otherwise you'll be left with a flat battery and an AA call out.

b. Fit a split charge system with a leisure battery - this will provide power for low use systems for reasonable periods without needing to start the engine (ie fridge, lighting, telly), or short term use of high use items, such as your hairdrier.

c. combine a + b, using a for things like the hairdrier and coffee pot. (this is the system favoured by overland adventurers in land rover circles)

d. fit a full caravan system with aleisure battery and a mains hook-up. this is the option that meets all your requirements and would allow you to fit other electrical items permanently.

Choice is yours Ana, If you want help with A and/or B, give me a shout. I have some useful land rover folk up your way who would be willing to help get you sorted.

First it depends on the size of the battery. I have a 110 amp hour battery.
So if I am using 110 amps at one go it will last for one hour, 5 amps will last for 22 hours continual use.
Leisure batteries come in amp hour sizes ranging from 75 amp hours and up to 110 amp hours, so you will have to work out what your discharge rate will be over a set period of time to see what size battery you will need

I would look for a 110amp battery but stear clear of "Elecsol". Their so called "5 year warranty" is not worth a lot as they will try any way to be obnoxious to get out of honouring it.

I'm of no use to you Ana. Like Graham, we have a 110, but we always go to places with EHU because like you the missus uses a hairdryer. We aren't bothered about shower blocks though Very Happy

If Mrs Ana wants to use a hair dryer I think you will need a hook up Confused

I don't think you can run a dryer off a leisure battery, although I could be wrong. We always have a hook up so we only have a 70 amp battery, although when I put a mover on the van I will upgrade Smile

Many thanks everyone, thats really useful.

Ian/Snappy, We will indeed be getting EHU so will be using the battery for stop offs en route or for weekends if we find a nice site without hook up. Based on Samnjams calculations we should get a weekends worth of lowish use of electricity, the only concern might be the machine Im on at night. I'll avoid Elecsol Clive as there seem to be plenty of choice out there.

I'll print this off and get our VDub bloke to sort it (I actually bought the van off him), thanks for the offer though Snappy. I reckon its got to be the full leccy hit. We sold our classic Citroen this week so we have a few quid to spend. Ive fitted the alloys, new bed foam, floor vinyl and curtains so things are coming on nicely. Some storage capacity/furniture is needed but we're keeping it as a tin top so will also be getting a canvas awning for longer hols (love the canvas!! Very Happy

). I also want a cooker unit that can be removed and used outdoors. Its surprising how much weve enjoyed sorting this lot out.

oh!.....and does anyone else reckon Elbee uses the hairdryer on his moussy? Shocked

anaconda wrote

oh!.....and does anyone else reckon Elbee uses the hairdryer on his moussy? Shocked

I thought it was for his Brazilian Laughing

[quote="Lord Braykewynde"] We aren't bothered about shower blocks though Very Happy

[/quote

Blimey. I bet it gets a bit whiffy in your van in the summer Wink

Blimey. I bet it gets a bit whiffy in your van in the summer Wink

[/quote]

We've got what's called an end washroom with a shower Very Happy

Only time it gets whiffy is if the missus makes a fruit salad and scoffs it all Embarassed

Step into my parlour, said the spider to the fly.

In other words, this is my domain and without going into detail, some of the above "advice" is interesting to say the least.

Ive toured UK, and France for the last 15 years and if possible i dont use EHU. Its not needed, so grab a coffee, take a seat, and prepare to learn Ana:

You have various options, its just lateral thinking thats needed. So lets start with a leisure battery. A "proper" leisure battery is designed to give a slow discharge rate over a long period of time, whereas a car battery gives 75% (on average) of its crank power on the turn of the key. So thats the difference between them, but it doesnt quite stop there. Leisure batteries are and can be fickle if not looked after properly. So if your planning to charge one use a smart charger, Aldi do one every couple of months for 15 quid, as do Lidl, unbelievable value and does the job of some much more expensive smart chargers.
110 amp is usually what caravans go for if they need a bigger Ahr battery, but you can get up to 220 Ahr batteries, they just dont fit in caravans hence why caravanners dont really mention them. You can get a smaller Ahr, which is also smaller in size slightly, but its your choice. I can EASILY last 5 days on a 110 with no EHU, but thats on careful/moderate use.

So which battery? Ok for my money, fact, ive tried and failed with various makes, and the only battery ive got decent use out of, including being able to run down to nothing then recharge with no problems, is an Elecsol. They have carbon fibre plates and are of a far superios construction to standard lead plate ones, which also dont like being charged/discharged as much and cannot be taken to 0 and back to full without some damage. Incidently ive just spent today training 3 guys on battery maintenance, care and use on some large equipment, so im talking from hobby and professional level.

Elecsol dont make nothing else, nowt. Just batteries. Yet they are in business, worldwide distribution all from a unit in Neston. Not bad for a company that makes only one product line. You get what you pay for, simples. And for my money Elecsol are the best on the market by a long way. I also have a mate who is a distributor and it has been "known" for different stickers to be put on batteries depending on what the customer orders. They come in blank and go out as.....well whatever you want. If you do nothing else all year, trust me on this, buy an Elecsol.

Right how do we run things?

Ok first rule, motors kill power.

Second rule, TVs kill power.

So its a case of replacing what you use, actually using an item is not a problem.

Lets take a hairdryer.

1500 watts. So you can plug this into an inverter (takes power from 12v up to 230v) and it will run the dryer until the 12v source is exhausted. But as a general rule inverters are only 60% efficient, so your 12v supply will only last 60% of its usual. But thats taking it to zero, which defeats the object unless you can charge it. Which you can. Your taking the best generator you have away with you, its the vehicle. So from what you have said i would do this:

Buy an inverter, say 2000 watt, about 50 quid from fleabay. make sure it has overload cut out on it, it will say in the description.

So now anything you want can be run from that, but the power source is now the issue.

Ok, Elecsol battery, 110 Ahr will do. So for smaller things like a tv (75 watts average) you can run from the leisure battery via inverter no problem. But for the hairdryer, clip the inverter onto the vehicle battery, turn on motor and plug hairdryer into inverter, via extension lead. Your alternator will keep you with enough 12v to run the inverter, which will run the hairdryer.

Buy a decent smart charger to recharge the leisure battery, which you can run via inverter onto leisure battery, or have it fitted in situ linked to the alternator via a split charge relay. Any decent auto spark can do this, so when you run engine or go out, leisure battery recharges.

As long as you have fuel in the tank, you have unlimited power to run anything. And i mean anything, hairdryers are probably the most power hungry items known to man. ive run a disco from my car via an inverter of 1000 watts on a rally, couldnt do a hairdryer though till i upped the inverter...lol.

Reckon that covers it.

Ive caravanned like this for years, and ran discos, events, lights and even heaters from an inverter via the car.

Any more questions?

Brassneck69 wrote

Second rule, TVs kill power.

As a former Electronics Technician, agree with everything Brassy said, except for the above statement.
I ran my TFT TV off 12V (NOT inverter) AND a Pace Javelin 12V sky box for around 5 hours per day and STILL lasted 8 days on a 113Ah Leisure Battery. I took a spare 113Ah battery with me "just in case" but never had to use it. So I could easily have lasted a fortnight non-EHU.

We dont use a telly on our jollies so not a problem.

Brassy, thats what I call comprehensive! I need to look on line to get a handle on some of the stuff you referred to, I'll come back to you then if I may with a few questions.

anaconda wrote

We dont use a telly on our jollies so not a problem.

Brassy, thats what I call comprehensive! I need to look on line to get a handle on some of the stuff you referred to, I'll come back to you then if I may with a few questions.

No problem, im watching this topic so ill get an email as soon as you post.

Incidently ignore what Gary says, he knows nothing.

(Actually he's right, the current crop of LCd tvs dont use feck all really, im still comparing to older sets to err on the safe side, and so i dont have to admit i was wrong........lol)

Brassy - to summarise:

I need a decent battery (obviously) Probably 110 amp provided it fits under the passenger seat.

Get an inverter to 'convert' the battery supply to a more useable/efficient form wher high demand usage is needed. Can this be set up to operate between the battery and the standard plug socket (part of the set up when we get an EHU system fitted) - so it would just be a case of turning the thing on when using the hairdryer or would we always need to plug directly into the inverter? I want to keep this as simple as possible and given that we would in any case normally use EHU this may just be a question of whether we can be arsed taking another bit of electric kit/extension lead etc. If we do use the hairdryer via the leisure battery then even with the inverter you seem to be suggesting that we need to go easy on the usage.

A smart charger. This could be fitted to take power from the alternator to recharge the battery in situ. So we charge as we drive - I like it. Is this what people sometimes refer to as 'trickle charge'?

If we decide to get a DVD or TV player make sure its an up to date LCD version.

Cheers for the advice.

Ana. given what you have said, you may well not need a 110 amp leisure battery size weight ect.a smaller battery may suffice Not sure how keen you are on this,although having an axillary battery fitted and wired up is a good idea. there is a huge range of 240/12v equipment out there, from air driers kettle tv ect.which are all low wattage which would help with usage.

Suggest you also have an extra cigarette lighter installed in the back of your van, this is wired to you main battery so whilst you are driving you can use this to power the fridge box, kids can play Dvd's and you can keep things charged up ie phones ect. If you are going to invest in a new TV, its worth getting a free view version with a built in dvd player, all in one.

We actually use our Galaxy as day/night vehicle occasionally like we will be doing next weekend. We will take our caravan leisure battery and have croc clips it cigarette lighter adaptor, if the need be once parked up this will run the fridge when we are parked up.we also have a small 50 watt solar panel, could say its almost useless but every little helps.

anaconda wrote

Brassy - to summarise:

I need a decent battery (obviously) Probably 110 amp provided it fits under the passenger seat.

Yes.

Get an inverter to 'convert' the battery supply to a more useable/efficient form where high demand usage is needed.
Yes

Can this be set up to operate between the battery and the standard plug socket (part of the set up when we get an EHU system fitted) - so it would just be a case of turning the thing on when using the hairdryer or would we always need to plug directly into the inverter? I want to keep this as simple as possible and given that we would in any case normally use EHU this may just be a question of whether we can be arsed taking another bit of electric kit/extension lead etc. If we do use the hairdryer via the leisure battery then even with the inverter you seem to be suggesting that we need to go easy on the usage.

Inverters are only 60% efficient so will run a battery down a lot quicker. But its how you recharge that battery again. You could have a simple split charge relay fitted, via alternator circuit, onto the battery which will charge it whenever engine is running. But its a limited charge and not the best idea for a charge on a leisure battery. Ive got a smart charger plugged into inverter which is clipped onto car battery which charges better and quicker than my alternator.

A smart charger. This could be fitted to take power from the alternator to recharge the battery in situ. So we charge as we drive - I like it. Is this what people sometimes refer to as 'trickle charge'?

No. Your smart charger has to run off 230v, so that plugs into inverter, and inverter can be run via 12v socket in van, or wired into van battery direct. You can have an inverter wired permanently, and i did this 2 caravans ago. As a caravan circuit is a simple ring main, when i flicked inverter on it gave me instant 230v power through all sockets. But the key is keeping the power for the inverter running. So mine was wired into car battery and i could keep going with any power as long as i had fuel in my tank.

If we decide to get a DVD or TV player make sure its an up to date LCD version.

DONT buy a tv until you ask questions on here. 230v tv 100 quid, 12v tv 200 quid. Yet now MOST 230v tvs are actually 12v run from a transformer, so you pay more for the perceived notion one is only able to run on 12v. Wrong.

Cheers for the advice.

We had something like THIS in our T25 that was great for plugging in essential things like car christmas trees and fairy lights Laughing

Going to get one for the Podlet now too Very Happy

I don't know how, but Darren wired the leisure battery in the Wedge up to be topped up when the EHU was plugged in or we were driving along. It topped up from the main battery on a trickle charge I believe.
I could be talking rubbish but shout if you want me to nudge him in this direction to tell you how he did it Very Happy

Got one of those Jenny, its ideal for the coolbox. I ordered the ehu, leisure battery, split charger and accessories today from Just Kampers. The battery is going under the passenger seat so will need to be a fairly small one as the larger ones snag with the underside of the seat. Gio is right we arent really going o mad with the electrics so it should be enough for weekends away. Its a question of making best use of space which as you know is pretty tight in a VDub. They will all get fitted next week and were hoping to go to Foxholes campsite for a couple of nights next weekend. (first time out!)

All sounds very complicated to me, for the sake of a couple of quid a night wouldn't it be easier to plug in to an EHU? Shocked

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essexeddie wrote

All sounds very complicated to me, for the sake of a couple of quid a night wouldn't it be easier to plug in to an EHU? Shocked

.

Some tight asses about Eddie Confused

essexeddie wrote

All sounds very complicated to me, for the sake of a couple of quid a night wouldn't it be easier to plug in to an EHU? Shocked

.

Its really just a back up Eddie. Ive every intention of using EHU as much as possible but if we're away for a weekend or on an overnight stop in France it means we dont need to rely on EHU. There are quite a few nicely located smaller sitres which have little or no EHU.

Just for interest this is one of em, a cracking spot:

http://www.gwynant.com/index.html

If it's only for a back up, an overnight stay or even the odd weekend then all you need is what you have probably already got - a leisure battery. You certainly don't need anything else that Brassneck has suggested since you'll be plugging into an EHU and/or charging while driving to the next destination anyway.

Save your pennies and stop worrying. Wink

heh heh!...okleydokley legs........the only issue is the 'sleep machine' which would be on for up to ten hourse albeit low voltage, but im hoping to get off it within six months. Otherwise it seems were going to be ok